Monday, September 2, 2013

Online Cults

A "cult" is hard to define. The term is used very subjectively, and usually pejoratively. Typically the most fervent anti-cult movements are run by religious people, and that's a slippery place from which to argue against differing beliefs. The concept is inevitably tied to fringe - and harmful - religious beliefs, practice, and institution, but the details are very fuzzy.

Nonetheless, this is how I imagine cultists on the Internet.

We've talked before about how the Internet has given atheism a loud platform, but what about new religious movements? While the numbers did indicate that non-religious numbers were on the rise, we can't necessarily assume that the "no religion in particular" category excludes people that participate in cults, since they might not even think of it as a religion. We also know that the Internet can be very insular, allowing for strange community quirks to develop.

Since we're talking about online religious movements, we won't include the movements that started before the Internet.  Even though Heaven's Gate had a (hilarious) website in the mid-90s, we wouldn't count it because they got their start in the 1970s.

Let's explore what the Internet has come to offer by way of new religious movements.

In 2005, a YouTuber-to-be called Onision attempted to start an online cult named Sicesca. The website was shut down in 2006, but is archived here. The website's content is written very obtusely, but there seem to have been promises of enlightenment and an emphasis on environmentalism and animal rights. His attempt at a cult went forgotten for a while, but he has since referenced it in one of his YouTube videos. Now that Onision has a sizable YouTube following, he has a very prominent platform on which to promote his ideas.

However, as far as I can tell, Sicesca - or whatever may have succeeded it - doesn't have any current activity, so let's move on.

FreeDomain Radio is the online outlet for libertarian blogger and "self-described philosopher" Stefan Molyneux, who explores concepts of "freedom philosophy" in his podcasts and articles. The website ranks among the top 100,000 websites visited in the United States, and presents itself as "alternative news".

Molyneux ramps up the usual libertarian "freedom from force" garbage by describing the family structure as a coercive entity. After all, since you are forced into your family ties, then true freedom must come by deliberately rejecting your family, right? The FreeDomain Radio community calls this "DeFOO" - Departing the Family of Origin. The von Mises Institute, a more mainstream libertarian outlet, thrashes Molyneux's libertarian arguments as "preposterously bad".

The Alexa data reveals that most of the website visitors don't have a college education, suggesting that a large portion of Molyneux's audience is younger than college-aged and therefore already in a period of rebelliousness against their family. There is at least one verified account of a teenager and regular visitor to FreeDomain Radio running away from home and cutting all ties with their family. Other such stories can be found on various blogs, devoted to countering Molyneux's message and discussing the general destructiveness of FreeDomain Radio.

And let's do it because a cult told us to!

As far as uniquely "online" cults go, some new religious movements exist that could not possibly have existed before the Internet. Kopimism is a completely online-born religious movement, whose members - called Kopimists - believe that copying and sharing information is a virtue that should be celebrated and revered.

Kopimism has even been recognized as a legitimate religion in Sweden, and at least one Kopimist wedding has been performed. Their logo is the Kopimi symbol, a copyright alternative designed to specifically encourage the "kopimied" work to be copied as much as possible.

According to their constitution, Kopimists declare the internet "holy" and have private ceremonies online that are forbidden from being recorded. Reading through the mix of organizational jargon and internet slang, it's hard to tell if these people actually take themselves seriously, or if they're a bunch of people exchanging files in secured meeting spaces.

The group seems to be very focused on free proliferation of information, which seems to be more like a political stance than a religious identity. It is possible that Kopimism is similar to pastafarianism and discordianism in that it exists to make a tongue-in-cheek point. On their "What is Kopimism?" page, they explicitly say that they "do not make claims regarding gods or supernatural forces", and that they registered as a religion because they "deserve the same recognition and respect" as other faiths.


"Thou mayest ctrl-c and ctrl-v, but of ctrl-x thou shalt not press of it."

How far do we want to stretch the label of "cult", anyway? Kopimism, on paper, is a new religious movement, but it doesn't seem like a cult. There's some negative connotation to the term "cult" that separates it from merely being a "new religious movement". After checking around some online sources for definitions and common traits found among cults, let's define our criteria for cults to be:
  • Having an authoritarian leader
  • Having fringe beliefs, which may be dangerous, and may be false
  • Imposing (or suggesting, since it'd be rather hard to impose anything on someone through the Internet) lifestyle changes for its adherents
  • A strong emphasis on getting money and/or recruiting members
  • "Thought-reform", "mind-altering practices", or deliberately affecting how its adherents think in some way
  • A strong distinction between those outside the group and those within the group, often incorporating insider language
An author of one of the anti-FreeDomain Radio blogs goes into a very good explanation of cults, and contends that when people usually talk about cults, they mean a specific kind of new religious movement that is destructive to its followers. While there may be a lot in common between cults and more mainstream organizations, we can make an essential distinction by talking about "destructive cults".

This makes sense, because we know that a "cult following" doesn't carry the same connotations as "following a cult". Nerdy fandoms can be notoriously devoted to their hobby of choice, obsessively following the work of famous authors, artists, and other content producers. These content producers rarely (if ever) try to command an authoritarian role among their fans. These people are not cult leaders. Their work is not designed to preach a message or to be doctrine.

Despite authorial intent, a very fringe number of fans will still venerate their favored artist, and actually do treat their hobby like a religion. Even very isolated individuals can connect with like-minded people on the Internet, form organized communities, and then organize conventions and other meetups to celebrate their hobby. These are people who take their consumption habits to the extreme, where it becomes destructive to them. Luckily, they do not have to dictate how the functional, (relatively) well-adjusted majority enjoys the creative output of others.

Of course, some fringe audiences are more visibly crazy than others.

We also know that "cult of personality" does not have the same connotations as "cult", either. We've previously discussed the cults of personality that some administrators have with their website community. Unlike artists, administrators do have some authority over their website community because they have control over the website interface. Since administrators likely direct their website to their own tastes, the people who end up being regular visitors to the website probably have similar tastes to the administrator. We also know that a lot of online communities tend to be very cliquey, often with their own catchphrases, social dynamics, and prerequisite community lore.

However, there is never any obligation for site members to love, like, or agree with the site administrator. Most administrators are very impartial to community activity on their websites, and impose the bare minimum of regulations on their user base to avoid legal issues or readability issues. There are communities with tighter rules, but those rules never exist to venerate the administrator. If anything, those administrators receive far more anger than they do adulation.

The SomethingAwful administrator narrates a NSFW email that he received from one of his biggest fans.

Still, just because a lot of these online hubs and communities aren't really cults (let alone destructive cults) doesn't mean we couldn't have a cult-like online hub.

Let's explore this idea by looking at Less Wrong, an online community that I've previously written about. I mentioned in the previous post that they've already had accusations of being a cult levied against them, so that gives us reason to check them out a little more thoroughly.

We already talked about their peculiar insider language that they use with one another in the older post. They also organize meet-ups together for members to meet each other in real life. This isn't unusual - people who go on Reddit, Tumblr, and other websites have organized meetups in the past as well (meetups on online communities may be laughable, cringeworthy, shameful events - but they're not unusual).

Less Wrong meetings can incorporate a little more than the usual nerdy online awkwardness. They are actively concerned with making Less Wrong "a stronger community", have written an extensive guide to running proper meetups, and even closely examine successful instances of meetups as case studies. Here is an excerpt from one of their Christmas-time meetup summaries, aptly called a "ritual report":
"The night begins with many sources of light - from candles and oil lamps to gas lanterns to florescent bulbs to lasers and lava lamps. We begin with fun songs like “It’s Beginning to Look A Lot Like Fish Men.” As the night progresses, we turn the lights off, one by one, and the songs grow darker. We occasionally read relevant snippets of Lovecraft, then abridged versions of Eliezer’s Sequences. We read the Litany of Tarski, over and over, each time facing a darker possibility that we must prepare ourselves for." ~A "Ritual Report"
You'll notice that part of their ceremony was reading from the "Sequences", which are blog posts that Less Wrong's administrator, Eliezer Yudkowsky, penned a few years ago. Yudkowsky's Sequences detail many of his pet ideas within transhumanism, "Bayesian epistemology", artificial intelligence, and other topics pertaining to "Rationality".

As far as I can tell, Yudkowky has not had a direct hand in organizing these meetups, nor has he asked anyone to incorporate the Sequences in such meetups. These people are just so enthusiastic about "rationality" that they consider his writings to be essential, and have even written alternative versions of them so that more people read them. These devoted members call themselves "Rationalists".

The way that Less Wrong people define rationality is far more involved than the conventional definition of rationality. It is more specific, and involves a lot more of their strange terminology than most might be able to stomach. This is important - the way that Yudkowsky and Less Wrong people define "rationality" is different from the way that most people define rationality. Bear that in mind as you read this, so as not to confuse their "rational" talk with what you think is rational.

According to Yudkowsky, rationality "is the master lifehack which distinguishes which other lifehacks to use". On his personal website, he writes about the virtues of rationality, writing in a style that borders on religious:
"How can you improve your conception of rationality? Not by saying to yourself, “It is my duty to be rational.” By this you only enshrine your mistaken conception. Perhaps your conception of rationality is that it is rational to believe the words of the Great Teacher, and the Great Teacher says, “The sky is green,” and you look up at the sky and see blue. If you think: “It may look like the sky is blue, but rationality is to believe the words of the Great Teacher,” you lose a chance to discover your mistake.
Do not ask whether it is “the Way” to do this or that. Ask whether the sky is blue or green. If you speak overmuch of the Way you will not attain it.
You may try to name the highest principle with names such as “the map that reflects the territory” or “experience of success and failure” or “Bayesian decision theory”. But perhaps you describe incorrectly the nameless virtue. How will you discover your mistake? Not by comparing your description to itself, but by comparing it to that which you did not name." -Eliezer Yudkowsky
Yudkowsky's pet ideas have been accused of being misplaced and delusional. Yudkowsky is not an academic, and allegedly hasn't even finished high school.

That didn't stop him from founding what is now known as the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) in 2002, an organization devoted to "Friendly AI" research. Despite being called a research institute, their "publications" only began appearing in peer reviewed journals in 2012. Those particular papers in 2012 were in two low-impact journals that are outranked even when examining journals in the same field. Other papers have been published in Singularity Hypotheses, whose website appears to run out of a blogger site and doesn't even appear in the SJR database. They do have several conference proceedings under their belt, but presenting in a scientific conference can demand lower rigor than publishing in a scientific journal.

Of course, sometimes Yudkowky can get his works published by getting them into chapters of other people's books, but that is a far less selective arena than peer-reviewed publication. This all goes without mentioning his Harry Potter fanfiction.

Rationality and reality are apparently not compatible.

There are other people who feature prominently on Less Wrong, some of which are other bloggers on the Internet, others of which are researchers affiliated with MIRI. Despite these other contributors, Yudkowsky has historically possessed most of the spotlight among his peers. The community contributes their own thoughts on rationality, and often build on Yudkowsky's pet ideas from the Sequences. They even jokingly glorify Yudkowsky, inserting him in strange fanfiction and Chuck Norris-esque jests. While Yudkowsky may not be the one organizing all of the meetups, he certainly embraces a role as community leader.

Yudkowsky, along with some other administrators, maintains control over the content on his website. Roko's Basilisk was an on-site incident where a contributing user wrote about a version of Pascal's wager involving a theoretical future artificial intelligence. The writings were consistent with ideas already proposed in Less Wrong, but Yudkowsky's response to the content was to sputter, rant, and ban all discussion of it on his website. His provided reasoning was that Roko's Basilisk had caused extreme psychological distress to members of his community. This, coming from someone who supports a community that favors overcoming initial reactions of disgust to "rational ideas" and sincerely argues in favor of torturing a man for 50 years over dust flying in the eyes of a sufficiently large number of people.

Less Wrong and MIRI also have a sister organization, the Center for Applied Rationality, which offers workshops on how to improve your ability to think with rationality. For the low price of $3900 USD, you can spend a week with them learning about how your brain works and how you can improve your thinking skills. They'll even keep in touch with you for six weeks afterwards to make sure that you "adapt to the rationality material". Of course, Yudkowsky is on the team as a curriculum consultant.

So, we have a leader with fringe ideas on artificial intelligence. He exercises authority over which ideas are allowed to propagate in a community that loves his ideas. A whole wing of his supporters - along with this leader himself - are open and dedicated to taking your money while striving to reform the way you think.  He founded and helps run an organization that has questionable authority in the field that they claim to research. And of course, let's not forget their nonsense language. There you have it, folks - the Less Wrong online community certainly fits the bill of cult.

Quick! Someone give this thing a Snuggie!

But, is Less Wrong a destructive cult? Potentially.

There's also MetaMed, an organization stemming from MIRI that focuses on "personalized medical research". Don't confuse this with "personalized medicine" - MetaMed instead uses Bayesian networks to give you "actionable options". Of course, hiring someone to scour literature data in order to find obscure treatments could be valuable, but the service more strongly resembles medical consultation and should not be confused with personalized medicine or medicinal research. It's also medical consultation that costs about $5000, and is highly unlikely to be covered by insurance.

One blogger, closely affiliated with Less Wrong's community, has discussed MetaMed on his own blog, explaining that some rationalists advise trusting MetaMed's opinions over traditional doctors' opinions because MetaMed comes from within the rationalist community. Indeed, the pitch for MetaMed on LessWrong is awfully disparaging to traditional doctors, and promotes MetaMed as an organization with "names [that LessWrong people] will find familiar", with researchers that "have also read LessWrong".

Yudkowsky has already gone on record to say that Bayesianism is superior to the scientific method, and now MetaMed as being promoted as a superior alternative to the conventional health care system. While there are certainly valid criticisms of the health care and hospital system, doing so in favor of a start-up that lacks a transparent record of success (they have testimonials, but the praises stop short of any mention of being successfully treated or cured) seems disingenuous. At its potential worst, it is self-promotion for the sake of profit, and may not actually significantly benefit its customers.

It is yet to be seen whether Rationality will have any sort of greater influence or authority in the future. One could argue that it is too early to make judgment (and indeed, most of the PhDs working at MIRI seem to be younger and merely beginning their careers) but a lot of Less Wrong's core members seem to have already made the judgment that Rationality is the superior way. This could hurt people.

Rationality is happening at a very interesting time in history. It's possible that they are the first among many new-age religious movements to deal with their particular subject matter.

In fact, we've seen something similar happen in the 20th century with extraterrestrial life.

Yesteryear's singularity.

UFO religions caught on like wildfire during the 20th century, in a time when flight technology and space exploration were finally gaining widespread support and legitimacy. Sure, human flight was talked about prior to the 20th century, but that was a time of gliders and hot air balloons - actual flight, let alone into space, was a pipe dream. As the Wright Brothers, Neil Armstrong, and Carl Sagan dominated public imagination, some individuals' imaginations ran more wildly than others.

Some people conceived of benevolent extraterrestrial life along with the necessity of seeking, welcoming, and embracing superior life forms. Some people fabricated entire mythologies around human origination, the afterlife, and good and evil in terms of great sci-fi epics. They were fringe organizations, but still earning a reasonably large following - Scientology, for example, has tens of thousands of American members. Raelism is allegedly the world's largest UFO religion, and also has a membership in the tens of thousands.

Meanwhile, here we are in the 21st century, and information technology is booming. The Internet has connected people like never previously seen. We produce so much information on this network that it brings deeper information into human visibility, and we need new programs and automata to see it all. New professions are emerging in machine learning and informatics, with implications seen everywhere from biology to sociology to economics. The way that technology has advanced in the past few decades is truly inspirational.

So is it so surprising that we suddenly have a group of people who conceive of benevolent artificial intelligence along with the necessity of seeking, welcoming, and embracing superior ways to process information through "Rationality"?

Thanks, information superhighway!

It's obvious to say that Kopimism could not exist without the Internet. But Less Wrong and Rationality likely could not either. Sure, supercomputers and artificial intelligence have been a pillar of science fiction since the emergence of computers in the 20th century, and transhumanists have been calling themselves 'transhumanists' since the 1980s, but back then, these fields were farther removed from reality than they are today. The Internet has given us far more intuitive notions of collective behavior, mass information, automation, and other concepts essential to imagining the topics of science fiction. And of course, these technological leaps have mostly been spurred by people who don't have any visible affiliation with transhumanism at all.

Followers of Rationality - again to emphasize, different from conventional rationality - are imaginative human beings trying to make sense of exciting current trends in technology. And as the technology progresses, we'll probably see more people like the Rationalists in the future. They are a product of our times, and our times happen to be focusing on information technology right now.

If Rationality is actually similar to their UFO religion forefathers (and let's be honest, I could be wrong), then we can expect Rationality and its ilk to always be fringe. Once in a while, they'll do something that reminds the world that they exist, but they will ultimately be inconsequential, and dismissed by people in industry, academia, government programs, etc who do work in computer science and information technology.

All that said, though it may be important to point out and criticize the cults, we must take care not to disparage the cultists too heavily. We're all guilty of believing strange things once in a while, so we ought to have some humility if we're just going to disparage someone for believing different strange things than we do. If their beliefs are not harming them or others, then the cult members can likely maintain functional lives while also happening to believe strange things.

The best thing that a person can do to help cult members is recognize the agency of cult members, keep resources on the cult available, and offer support if circumstances within the cult get dangerous. I'm certainly one to do my part in that.

46 comments:

  1. Hello, I recently discovered this blog and I must say it's an excellent reference for contemporary Internet culture. I was searching for Less Wrong criticism because I like reading that sort of stuff on the 'Net and I must say that this is one of the best essays (and very documented) on this topic! Keep up the good work!

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    1. Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed the read!

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  2. Your bias against youths wanting to live independent is alarming. Many young adults require their parents to provide money or sustenance as long as their 30's. Society has infantilized a whole generation of kids and a man tells them to forge their own path in life, clear from their parents as humans have done fot countless generations yet he is accused of starting a cult? God help us all if this is how society feels. Truth test is an emerging online cult I wanted to discuss, but honestly im aghast at your presumptions of how young men ought to be infants for life.

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  3. This really is well written, I really think damaging the integrity of science and scientific journals is one of the largest dangers of internet "rationalism". Casting aside scientific method for the use circular logic scares me.

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  5. There are many errors and omissions in your understanding of LessWrong. For instance, scientific conferences actually tend to be higher quality than journals in computer science - it's unique relative to other fields of science. There is also almost no moderation of ideas on LW, with RB being a sole (and temporary) exception. The excerpts from meetups and essays which you used to make it sound 'religious' are of course not a representative sample.

    The "conventional definition" of rationality you cited is a dictionary definition, which is a terrible way to approach any philosophical topic. If you look at how real (academic, mainstream) philosophers talk about rationality, they use just as much complex heavy terminology as folks on LessWrong do. Using a dictionary as an authority on a substantive issue is just a silly trick which would equally condemn all kinds of researchers and academics from all backgrounds.

    If you think MetaMed was bad just because it differed from conventional healthcare, you simply don't know anything about healthcare. The lack of statistical training among doctors and the prevalence of poor treatment decisions is a widely known problem in American healthcare which leads to poor treatment outcomes and cost overruns. MetaMed provided consulting on evidence-based treatment, not anything regarded as problematic in the slightest.

    After several years, your comments have aged poorly. There's been no sense of rationality "hurting people"; instead there's just been a steady stream of MIRI papers being accepted into higher tier workshops and Yudkowsky's views on AI gaining more approval in the field.

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  14. Get Your Wife Back, Perfect Urgent Love Spell. Am Karen Renee from FL Usa All Thanks To Dr Osasu Who Brought Back The Love Of My Life. my girlfriend cheated on me and asked for a breakup. I don't believe at first i try to get back with her but all she told me was she’s with someone else. that she is no longer interested in marrying me at that point i was heart broken because i love my girlfriend so much that i could not let go off her all of a sudden she left me, i really love her and never can imagine my life without her. not until i came across a powerful real spell caster Dr Osasu who promise me 24hours urgent love spell to get back with my girlfriend, good twenty-four {24} hours. hmm-mm, it was a good night time at 11:pm within the days that Dr Osasu told me that my girlfriend will be back, at first i heard the bell rings getting close to my door i heard someone saying honey!!!, it sound familiar i opened the door and i saw my girlfriend standing and weeping in front of me. i was not surprised because its all i have been praying for her to come back home. Guess what 2 weeks after she noticed her system and her body temperature was changed and i took her to clinic for check up and the doctor told me that there is life in her which means she was pregnant i really wants to use this opportunity to thanks Dr Osasu so much and the love page that directed me to Dr Osasu if you have any problem getting your ex back, or predicament that is worse or exactly like this you have been into, contact Dr Osasu on drosasu25@gmail.com You can add him up on Whats-app/ Or call +2347064365391

    ReplyDelete
  15. HOW DR. UNEME brought back my ex lover unemespellben@gmail.com
    Am DONNA, am from UK. After been in a relationship with my Boyfriend for 1 year now and we were planning to get married soon and all of a sudden he left me for another girl. of a truth, I really love this guy and never can I imagine life without him. I further tried all my best to get him back but all my effort to get him back in my life did not work out. It was on this faithful day, I came across some Testimonies on a website about this great spell caster called (Dr. UNEME) any persons claimed that he help them to renew their relationship and bring their ex lover back, I had to contact him because he was my last hope. I contacted him through his email and he assured me that in three days time my boyfriend is going to leave the other girl and come back to me and it was a very great surprise to see my boyfriend coming back to me after three days the spell was done. I am so very happy today that he came back to me and i achieved this with the help of Dr UNEME I equally want to use this opportunity to Tell/Advice to as many who need their ex back, if you need his help you can Contact him through
    EMAIL: unemespellben@gmail.com WHATSAPP HIM @ +2348143813120


    Thank You Once Again Dr.UNEME

    ReplyDelete
  16. HOW DR. UNEME brought back my ex lover unemespellben@gmail.com
    Am DONNA, am from UK. After been in a relationship with my Boyfriend for 1 year now and we were planning to get married soon and all of a sudden he left me for another girl. of a truth, I really love this guy and never can I imagine life without him. I further tried all my best to get him back but all my effort to get him back in my life did not work out. It was on this faithful day, I came across some Testimonies on a website about this great spell caster called (Dr. UNEME) any persons claimed that he help them to renew their relationship and bring their ex lover back, I had to contact him because he was my last hope. I contacted him through his email and he assured me that in three days time my boyfriend is going to leave the other girl and come back to me and it was a very great surprise to see my boyfriend coming back to me after three days the spell was done. I am so very happy today that he came back to me and i achieved this with the help of Dr UNEME I equally want to use this opportunity to Tell/Advice to as many who need their ex back, if you need his help you can Contact him through
    EMAIL: unemespellben@gmail.com WHATSAPP HIM @ +2348143813120


    Thank You Once Again Dr.UNEME

    ReplyDelete
  17. I WANT TO TEEL THE WORLD ABOUT THE MIGHTY SPELL CASTER DR OKEKE ODIN WHO HELPED ME BROUGHT BACK MY HUSBAND BACK HOME TO MY KIDS. I WAS MARRIED TO MY HUSBAND WILLIAM SCOTCH FOR SEVEN YEARS AND WE LIVED HAPPILY TOGETHER UNTIL A CERTAIN DAY HE JUST WOKE UP FROM SLEEP TO TELL ME THAT HE DOES NOT LOVE ME ANY MORE. AT FIRST I TAUGHT IT WAS A JOKE BUT WITH TIME I BECAME TO SEE THAT HE WAS SERIOUS.WE ALREADY HAVE TWO KIDS TOGETHER AND I WAS ALREADY PREGNANT FOR MY THIRD BABY. SO A DAY CAME WHEN HE JUST ARRANGED HIS BAGS AND SAID HE WAS LEAVING THE HOUSE FOR GOOD AND NOT LONGER INTERESTED IN THE RELATIONSHIP. I FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER GIRL AND THEY BOTH TRAVELED OUT OF THE STATE. AS I WAS READING THROUGH THE INTERNET ABOUT DIVORCE, I READ ABOUT THIS GREAT SPELL CASTER DR KEKE SO I CONTACTED HIM FOR HELP. HE TOLD ME NOT TO WORRY THAT IN JUST 48 HOURS, THAT MY HUSBAND WAS GOING TO COME BACK. I NEVER BELIEVED HIM UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY WHEN MY HUSBAND CAME TO THE HOUSE ASKING FOR MY FORGIVENESS. NOW WE ARE HAPPY TOGETHER WITH OUR KIDS. YOU CAN CONTACT DR KEKE TODAY AT writelovespell@gmail.com once
    again contact him at (writelovespell@gmail.com). or reach him on whatsAp on +2348140443360 HE IS THE BEST SPELL CASTER AND SOLUTION TO ALL YOUR PROBLEMS AND PREDICAMENTS

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  18. Hello I'm From Memphis Tennessee, USA I feel so joyful today because of the help Dr Sunny has rendered to me for getting my Husband back with his spell. I have been married for 4 years and it has been so terrible because my husband was cheating on me and was seeking for a divorce. But when i came across Dr Sunny Email, on the internet posted by a lady, i decided to get in touch with him and i explained my situation to him and then seek his help but to my greatest surprise he told me that he will help me with my case for there is no problem without a solution. Here i am celebrating because my Husband is back home and am really enjoying my marriage, what a great celebration. i will keep on testifying on the internet because Dr Sunny is truly a real spell caster. Why not contact Dr Sunny now if you are facing any challenges in your relationship life. Email solutioncentre911@gmail.com Also specialize i 1) love Spell2) Spell lost love
    3) Spells divorce
    4) Spells of marriage
    5) Spell binding
    6) Spells of break
    7) Banish a lover past.
    8.) You want to be promoted in your office
    9) you want to satisfy your lover
    contact this great man if you have a problem for a lasting solution Through Email: solutioncentre911@gmail.com

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  19. This is the website I read about Doctor Okaka and contacted him to help me get my ex boyfriend back to marry me during the month of December last year and I have come back here to post about him. Doctor Okaka will help you solve your problem no matter what you are going through. Posting about a spell caster is very strange to me because I never believed i will be able to say that I was helped by a spell caster in bringing my ex boyfriend back to me after 3 years of no contact. I read about his voodoo spell from other websites and contacted him to help me and in less than 48 hours my ex boyfriend called me and I was happy that he wants to get back to me. We met on Friday and he proposed to me,... It was the most beautiful ring. Please everyone out here, Contact Doctor to solve your problem for you and make you happy with your relationship that is hurting you. Love is the best feeling ever experienced. Email him at drokaka18@gmail.com or WhatsApp number:+2348141972381.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Strong And Powerful Love Spell To Win Your Ex Back.. I have decided that i am going to spend the whole day on the internet just to make sure that a lot of people are able to read this my testimony about Dr.happy who is a powerful spell caster from Africa, After been abandon by my lover i was so lonely that very day that i decided to go through the net for some relationships tips, I never knew that this was the road map that will secure the return of my lover. After reading a lot of tips on how to restore my relationship in a more better way i discovered that Dr.happy has a lot of recommendation than other spell casters, So with this i had my mind made up that Dr.happy was the right person for the job, And i contacted Dr.happy through his details which i saw on the internet and i was so happy that i chose to work with Dr.happy because his work was 100% perfect and the spell brought my lover back to me with fast relief you can also contact him for help now email.. happylovespell2@gmail.com
    Website...happylovespell2.webnode.com/
    Whatsapp/cal +2348133873774

    ReplyDelete
  21. This is the website I read about Doctor Okaka and contacted him to help me get my ex boyfriend back to marry me during the month of December last year and I have come back here to post about him. Doctor Okaka will help you solve your problem no matter what you are going through. Posting about a spell caster is very strange to me because I never believed i will be able to say that I was helped by a spell caster in bringing my ex boyfriend back to me after 3 years of no contact. I read about his voodoo spell from other websites and contacted him to help me and in less than 48 hours my ex boyfriend called me and I was happy that he wants to get back to me. We met on Friday and he proposed to me,... It was the most beautiful ring. Please everyone out here, Contact Doctor to solve your problem for you and make you happy with your relationship that is hurting you. Love is the best feeling ever experienced. Email him at drokaka18@gmail.com or WhatsApp number:+2348141972381.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hello Viewers. Life has been so miserable after my Husband broke up with me 2 year ago. I never thought he could hurt me just like that then i realized how much i loved him. When he ended our relationship and i had to look for options to make sure i get him back to myself because i wasn't living fine anymore. I was directed to a Babalawo known as Dr Ogbeifun by a family friend who claimed he helped her with Court case, and protection in her work to go higher than others. Then I contact with the Babalawo and i was surprised and amazed when my Husband came back to me with he knees on the floor pleading to me for forgiveness to take he back as my lover. I thought i was dreaming because all this happened just within 24 hours and it happened as the spell Doctor as said. For that wonderful encounter with this man, i took a decision on my path that i will let the world know about DR OGBEIFUN for he's able and capable to solve any problems. Get in touch with him email : ifababalawospelltemple@gmail.com
    Add him on WhatsApp: +2348050680253

    ReplyDelete
  23. Am here to say a big thank you to Dr Sam for his great powerful love spell and his great spirits for saving my relationship. No one would have believe that I and my ex will ever come back together again lovers. But this great spell caster united us in just 48 hours. Dr Sam is truly a real and honest online spell caster. Contact him now on: okokakspellhome@gmail.com or whatsApp him +2349060421250 and he will help you solve all your problem

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  24. Sveiki Es gribēju ātri informēt manu mīļoto, kas tur, ka iet caur nelaimīgs attiecības, es domāju, ka tiešsaistes burvestību nedarbojas, līdz es nonāca saskarē ar Dr Lomi, kas bija burvestību man un mans mīļākais atnāca atpakaļ uz mani tas bija tad es zinu, ka garīgā kontrole fizisko, Dr Lomi ir labākais pareizrakstības ritentiņā, kas var palīdzēt jums atkal jūsu mīļākais, palīdzēs jums ar jebkuru šķiršanās problēmu, viņš ir labākais jūs varat sazināties ar viņu uz e-pastu; lomiultimatetemple@gmail.com vai rakstīt viņam, izmantojot Line vai WhatsApp numuru +2349034287285 viņš var palīdzēt atrisināt jebkuru problēmu.

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  25. Hello my name is Linda i want to share my amazing experience with the greatest spell caster Dr irekenagba. my husband was cheating on me and when i found out we had a fight which lead to him filling for a divorce i cried and fell sick when i was searching about love quotes online i saw people talking about him and his great work whose case was similar to mine they left his contact info i contacted him and he told me not to worry that after 24hrs he will cancel the divorce and be back to me after i did everything he asked me to do to my greatest surprise the next day evening it was my husband he knelt down begging me to accept him back,thank you once again Dr irekenagba you are indeed a blessing to me he can also help you contact him on........
    WhatsApp: +2347059630655
    email: doctorirekenagba@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  26. I'm Redha Soyan, Out of respect for you and your spells I must make this testimony known to all, I've been to other spell casters without seeing any result. I just wished I came to you earlier, I got the best from you. My ex husband was gone for a year and I went everywhere and other spell casters for help but no result until my friend introduced me to Dr. Ken After the Love Spell was done, I finally got a call from him. His spells worked wonders and my husband is back full of love. It's a miracle! He suddenly came back with flowers saying that i should forgive him, i was truly flabbergasted and shocked when my husband kneel down begging for forgiveness and for me to accept him back.. I'm really short of words and joyful, you are a God sent to me and my entire family.. And now I am a joyful woman once again. Thank you so much Dr. Ken To everyone who is looking for a real spell caster should contact Dr. Ken On Drkenlovespell@gmail.com OR you can also reach him directly on his Whatsapp  +1(201) 992-1012.

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  27. I want to say thanks to this great man called Dr. Osasu who helped me in my marriage life. my name is Lilette Griffin lives in USA, So I was married to Albert we both love and like each other before our marriage, he care about my well being so i was so happy that i have found a man like this in my life my parents love him so much because of his kindness towards me and the way he care about me after four years in my marriage, no child he was not showing me much care anymore but i notice something is going on which i no. then i keep on with the relationship and i was hoping one day God will open my way to have a child in my home then i keep on going to church from one play to another by telling all the pastors about my problems that i don't have a child so many of them promise me that soon i we have a child in my home i keep on hoping in God's miracle on till one day when i went for a visit in my friend office then i was welcome by my friend we started dis causing about so many things on marriage life i was so shock she ask me about my wedding and what is going on till now i still don't have a child then i told her my dear sister i don't no what to do anymore and am scared of loosing my husband who have be caring for me for a long time now then she said i we not loosing him i ask how? then she said there is one man called Dr. Osasu who help in a relationship then i keep on asking how about him she told me this man can do all thing and make things possible i never believe her for once that this man she is talking about can do it so fast. also i ask her how do i get his contact she said i should not worry my self then she gave me his contact email ID and his number to contact him i said ok i will try my best to do so she wish me the best of luck in life then i went home gotten home, found that my door is open i was scared thinking so many things i don't no who is in my house now i look at the key in my hand i was thinking i did not lock my door shortly a word came into my mind that i should go inside and check if there is any body at home or my husband getting inside, i found that my husband move away his things in the house then i started calling his number refuses to pick i was like a mad Dog i cried and cried don't no what to do then i remember to that a friend of mine gave me a contact today i take my computer i emailed this man called Dr. Osasu also i called him on his cell phone which i received from my friend he spoke to me very well and i was happy my husband we come back to me so after the work was well done by Dr. Osasu, just in three days i heard my phone ringing not knowing it was my husband telling me his sorry about what he did to me then i accepted him again a month later, i was pregnant for him so i rest my testimony till i deliver safely i we give the best testimony again so my sisters and brothers if you are in such pain kindly contact this great man with this email drosasu25@gmail.com OR WhatsApp +2347064365391

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  28. <a href="https://german-home.com/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%83%d8%a9-%d8%aa%d9%86%d8%b8

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  29. Great and that i have a swell present: How To Reno A House house renovation quotes

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